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Cheaters! Read all admins or I will never pay for this site again.
Posted in 
Cheaters! Read all admins or I will never pay for this site again.
Posted in 
Cheaters! Read all admins or I will never pay for this site again.
I paid this site to be a member... I love playing on her and love Go. However, there are some people that cheat.Here is how the game I just played for an hour looked like:

I played a guy who was a yellow shield. He was super weak because he only played weak people. I crushed him by at least 60 but I was too lazy to count it exactly. Well then he played this little game, which I have had happen to me before. He kept playing in my territory to take it up until i had none left to play. Well I knew his plan because ellinos had done it before... So i played in his territory, knowing he had less. We went on and on. Everytime we passed, he marked everything dead and i rejected it. Then if it was his turn when he passed it was his turn again after I rejected. I used this to my advantage to get himto fill in his territory because he couldnt play in mine, or he would commit suicide. This worked for a little. Then he marked only the correct stones dead so I accepted, then I marked his and he rejected. It should have been his turn, based on that system, but since i marked then rejected, it was myturn...  wtf! Then I couldnt do anything because he'd do the same thing over and over. Well eventually I ended up not marking anything and passing, because I was frustrated and trying to make it his turn. But he didnt mark anything and ended up winning, because he had more "territory" and the majority of my territory were his 50 dead stones.... I was pissed. 

I don't know how that could be fixed, but I have a suggestion... Make a report button. In a situation like that, it is easy to look at the kifu ad make an executive decision based on the results... It would be better if you were able to record the conversation and the times and ways passed too. This is a very very very very common situation. It makes the game so messed up, considering that one of the principles of Go is honesty... This is not a threat at all, but I will refuse to spend money on something that is easily avoidable. 

As a side note, the buddy system as a member needs fixing too. Everytime I add buddies, it deletes them from my buddy list later. It's frustrating. Also, it would be nice to have buddies separated from the rest of the people for easier visibility. Thank you.
i'd suggest marking the stones be done by the system and not by the player it would solve a lot of porblems.
That would be nice, but it is quite hard to write an algorithm that does this correct in ALL cases (if it's not correct ALL the time, the players have to be able to change the marking, which brings us back to the problem of possible cheating) 
For me, Go is a game that should involve respect. Learn to accept defeat, respect for the other player and courtesy are some values that i belief this game have. there are a lot of new players which have their first contact with the game here (a great thing I think), but they dont have the same spirit as players that have their first contact with a real board. Back to the subject, the problem isn't the agorithm, but the people. everytime that I face these people, I try to share my thoughts. Maybe it's thinking too small or naive, but i hope things start to change on the right way.

i might be able to help creating a algorithm if you want, but i realy dont think this is the problem.

Best regards,
Dear metal chocobo,
You can report a cheating player by 2 ways:
- "report abuse" button: open player's info page (Alt+i while having player selected), click "report abuse" and choose one of options (insulting/harassing if you want to send chat extracts to moderators). Please note that it is adviseable to use it as soon as abuse happened.
- you can take a screenshot (please visit 
 for more information) and contact moderators from 
 by pressing "Moderator contact form" . I would as well advice copying the abuser's nickname from his info page into description.
When cheating is happening exactly in the game (like rejecting fair markings of dead stones or intentionally marking living stones as dead ones) I recommend using 2nd method so we can see the situation on the board and thus have an evidence to act upon the cheating player.

You can as well separate buddies by sorting players by Id. - click "Id." which is a bit below "settings" button - then your buddies will be listed in the beginning/end of player list.
I hope this information was useful to you and everyone who faces the same problems.
TCA NightWalker,
FlyOrDie Moderation team.
TCA NightWalker,

So this means that no action was taken about those in the topic "cheaters list"? please, could you comment on that topic? i have some screenshots and probably there are more on the same situation. when i get more time, i'll send the screenshots and sgf files as you suggested.

Thank you,

The mentioned topic was also deleted as it contained numerous players which do not cheat in fact and it could damage certain players' reputation, which isn't something that is wanted. I would also like to ask everyone not to make such topics in future. As I mentioned before, please email us with screenshot attached that shows cheating and we will deal with it.
Dear Roger,

Unfortunately, no action was taken due to lack of proof. Moderators would require a solid proof like a screenshot (in case of rejecting dead stones, because I am not sure if SGF records those actions).
I was trying to keep an eye on players mentioned in that topic but it's hard to keep up with everyone and be present at every game which mentioned players played. Feedback from players (screenshots and reports while I am in lobby) is really appreciated in this case.
We would gladly accept those screenshots which you've made, please email them at our inbox.
Thank you,
TCA NightWalker (FlyOrDie Moderator)
Hello NightWalker,

I agree with you. unfortunetly I dont remember the nicknames that I posted there, but I saved a .sgf file or a screenshot of them. I'm gonna search on my files for them and send as you said. I was looking at the .sgf files and it does show the action of passing and rejecting and marking live stones as dead. unfortunetly, it's not possible to send at the moderator's contact form, only the screenshot. for those games that I only have recorded as .sgf, how can I report them? I belive I have quite a few recorded here.

Than you,
Dear Japps,
Unfortunately, we cannot accept SGF exports as a solid proof of certain player cheating. I believe the only real way how you can report them is by sending us a screenshot(s) taken during the game.
Thank you,
TCA NightWalker (FlyOrDie Moderation team)
But if the cheater uses the strategy of pass and reject, when should i take the screenshot to prove that? i could make 2 or 3 screenshots to show how long it took (pass and reject) but i'll be able to send only one screenshot.. so i dont see how can i use 1 screenshot to use as a proof.
if the matter is the possibility of changing the .sgf, if the server had a backup with game number, it would be only needed the number to check that and wouldn't bee necessary even the screenshot.
as .txt uses less memory than screenshot, it might use the same memory. considering the ammount of trouble it would save (cheaters), i think it's a good idea, even if it's difficult to implement. then, i can consider a good idea to pay for an account.
Indeed, in that case I would recommend taking 2 or 3 screenshots. After saving the images you can fill in moderator contact form several times, each time attaching new screenshot.
Actually, I came up with an idea what else could be done to report cheating players:
1. Click SGF button and move the window a bit away so the situation on the board by the end of the game would be well seen.
2. Take a screenshot - I would need to see the ending position, the SGF text which is offered to copy, the players and their ratings. If necessarily (due to lack of space) - take several screenshots, i.e. 1st one with part of ending position and SGF full text (at least until AE line) which is offered for copying when you press "SGF" and 2nd one - without "SGF" being pressed, thus final position, players, result of the game in points.
3. Copy SGF text to text document as well
4. Fill in moderator contact form - attach screenshot, paste the copied SGF text into "Comments" part. If several screenshots were taken (due to lack of space) - contact us again, sending the other screenshot.
I am sure that this way will be very effective.
Thank you,
TCA NightWalker
Thank you for the quick help. I wont be able to doanything now, but I will in the future. Thank you a ton