in the long run... hmm... so you're still trying to tell me that healing from 1500-2000 hitpoints as well as 2000-3000 manapoints is easier to heal than just the hitpoints alone between monsters?

i'll admit, if a mage can balloon-fight their entire life, they'd probably be as good or better than a fighter who did the same.  but that's just not possible because so many people are often after that balloon.

and if we're talking TA where mages can just go to the nearest pub for a quick heal, when they have no TA potions left on them... well, with the vamping a high level fighter can do, he/she can often go 3-5 fights in a row without healing, whereas a mage might get 2 fights in before needing to regen manapoints at least.

i still maintain that fighters are better in the long run, provided that you're talking about advancing through the levels fastest, since that is the goal of the majority of mages and fighters.

--jason

personal experience - the pure mage is in the #1 spot ONLY because the fighter and fighter/mage combos that were 'above' her stopped playing for one reason for another.  The person in the #3 spot is gaining fast as are the players in the rankings below #3.

if by #3, you mean #2, then yes.  he has been gaining on you slowly.  but still, keep up the work with an excellent mage.  you'll likely always be the top one of those if you play til there's no game left.
--jason

oops - sorry, that's right, Cronus moved into #2 just the other day.  MagicRose will likely stay the 'top' mage, but it is doubtful that she will be the 'top' ranked - overall - for very much longer.

ok I guess i have to weigh in on this and get a alot of boo's for it. Ideally mages are the best, note the word idealy. It is near impossible to make an ideal character of any sort. Now if you go by hungarian larkinor(which is where i think ppl get this idea that mages are the best) from then you would be correct. But here forumlas and other factors changed(anti vamping, greater use of the strength attribute, quickness seems to be different here etc.)In hung larkinor i have a mage with over 12k mana(lvl 97) and one of these monsters at this lvl has near 40k hp and is a mana drainer and i barely beat it. On the other hand lvl 97 fighters would find this fairly easily. there is no perfect characte rmage or fight or any combination of such. There are plus sides and down sides to each set. Mages have to worry about mana drainers(this is pointed at you bane i know you voiced a complaint on this for a long time). Quick fighters/mages are good for pvps and monster fights most of the time. Persis fighters are good for fighting on ta(my experience anyway). To rap up my long rant there is no real difference between mages and fighters each have good attributes and each have its fair share of pitfalls.

From what I read you didn't mention even 1 pitfall about fighters ;\

unable to make own weapons, not many building stones on same time for the most part except quick fighters are slow and generally dont do as well as mages in pvp's

It isn't just the manadrainers that are a problem.  A 'fighter' has trouble with monsters that are 'tough' (a nonmagic attack doesn't do much good) for fighters, only those can defeat him/her, and those are the only ones that the fighter has to go to the 'bar' (or home) to refresh before going out to defeat other monsters.  The pure mage has 3 classes of monsters that are 'tough'.....  The monsters that are simply resistent to magic so only 1 or 2 hitpoints (if any) damage is done for each attack, manadrainers and 'high' hitpoint monsters.  Because of this imbalance in the number of 'tough' monsters, the pure mage has to go back to the bar (to get high hit and manapoints) after every 'tough' monsters.  If there was a balance so that the pure fighter and pure mage had to 'recharge' after a similar number of monsters.... but there isn't so the pure mage wastes a huge number of clicks going in/out of the bar and can defeat a smaller proportion of monsters at each new level.  Case in point - MagicRose is down to being able to defeat only 1 'new' monster on each level.  She still can't defeat the monsters from the previous level(s) that Cronus has already defeated.

I do have a 'jr' mage that I'm focusing on more speed attacks, but even so....  I'm not seeing a dramatic improvement in the time it takes to level 

iam not exactly sure what u meant by all that bane is that for mage's being the best or for them not being so, it really wasnt clear

It was pretty clear to me, Mont. Banne is saying that in the upper levels mages have alot more tough matches than fighters do, so they have to drink a DD or something more often, wasting alot of clicks. (That's not good for mages)

that really doesnt adress what this topic was supposed to be  which is, which class is better. So mages have tougher fights in upper levels is that a major pitfall. If one were to assume that then there in upper levels and the goal to reach the max in the game lvl 100 would to be a fighter then.

ps i know about mages and upper lvls Akcentus lvl 97 ;)

I've been meaning to ask you Mont about reaching level 100. In chat I thought I heard you say once you reach level 100 you can't do anything anymore? Is that true?

I understand it now Mont, ty for answering in Chat :D

Clarification - upper levels, the mages are not going to be able to level as quickly nor are they going to be able to defeat as many 'new' monsters when they level as a fighter or fighter/mage.  Sounds like pure mages are not 'best'.

i ahve to screen shot that comment bane and post it as my background :)

lol jk

Maybe "Cronus" isnt the ideal example, he is after all a semi, using magic as a ranged attack then melee...but theres no way he can stay out after fighting just one monster, I ALWAYS have to either chair or hit the pub as trying to fight a second would invariably lead to a magical carpet ride home.
The likes of Spidey with his HP total, now he may be another matter altogether.

On a side note, Rebanne I've got Trump-cards if you need them :)

Cinder.

ty all so much for your help:p well im going to keep experimenting w/ diff. characters, preferably a mage/fighter in the future...although i dont know how well thats gonna go:p well.... ill get back to u all on that.

Interesting thread.

While it is clear fighters level more quickly and with fewer clicks than mages, wouldn't a pure mage typically fare better in PVP vs a similarly leveled fighter?

One reason is mages need only invest in three attributes (quickness, persistence and intelligence), while the well-balanced fighter splits his pts amongst four (q, p, strength and dex).  The higher up you go in levels, the more significant this difference becomes, e.g. the quickness gap grows to the point where the mage is always striking first or 2x per round.

I don't think thats completely correct flad. I think the difference would grow in the opposite direction as you get to a high level. After level 50 or so Fighters would start to get the advantage in PVP's.

And remember the weapons that 'vamp'.  There is no such thing for the mage so even though they can hit harder/more often, the fighter keeps getting more hitpoints from his/her weapon.

Cinder, I'll get back to you later - hectic weekend coming up.

Flad maybe this will help ..

Level 70 weapons: Photosteel Poniard. Its magical and it VAMPS, giving it an advantage over mages. Damage: 1782.
(S/S)
                ; Dracosteel Mortar. It also vamps, giving fighters the advantage. Damage: 1792.
(ranged)


For a level 70 mage with 74 magic skill...


Average damage for a spell is 1697, considerably less than  a fighters weapons, and NO spell can vampirize hitpoints. 

And even though mages only need to spread their points through 3 attributes, Fighters still tend to have more Persistence and Hitpoints. Check the Pers toplist. 

Once it all adds up, fighters win.

gen, i wouldn't be so sure.  most mages by that lvl would have lvl 76 magic at lvl 70.  this gives damage 1780-1819.  now yes, the poniard gives damage 1767-1797 and with any decent amount of strength, would vamp about 15-20% of the damage... namely around 300, give or take.

as for attributes, all respect to rebanne, but the top mages are not built nearly as "ideal" as some of the higherh fighters are.  which explains why fighters appear to have more pers and hp's.  if you were planning to have a lvl 70 pvp mage, he/she would have quite a bit more pers than a similar lvl 70 pvp fighter, due to the distributing of attributes.  over 100 pers for sure, possibly more.  as well as above-average speed, and would still have plenty left for iq to get plenty of mana.  whereas a fighter would struggle to have even 80 or 90 pers, if they want to have much strength and speed (for damage and vamp bonuses, and to do well in pvp).

but unless we all go start creating these "ideal" pvp characters, and wait 2 or 3 years to test this... it will only be based on opinion... unless someone went to do some spreadsheet work on developping a character through each level ;)

--jason... a fighter by heart, but still firmly believing that while fighters do better for lvl'ing faster, they wont' stand up against mages in pvp

Ok then I have a question: Didn't Slim and Banne meet at about level 65 and fight? And did Slim win? Really I don't know, but I think I've heard so before. If had heard there was a match between them I would have guessed automatically that banne would have won, (I was a noob when I heard this so I'm not sure if its even fact) but the people in chat said Slim won. Slim's character has about 1500 famepoints or something not too evniable, while Banne has over 2000. Mage that has proven herself in battle against others, versus equal level fighter who has had some rough luck with others his level. But the Fighter wins? ?:|

Once more this was a long time ago when I heard Slim beat Banne so I'm not sure its true.

Any light shed on this would be apppreciated. Banne? ;\

I totaly agree with Rebanne, my mage just can't keep up, I now realy only use her on TA or with the balloon, and even then she cannot kill as many monsters as a fighter of the same level.

Lucy.

Watch as I justify everyones arguements and debunk them all at he same time:p

Mages ARE at a disadvantage, theres no denying that. They can't vamp, and struggle to beat high hp monsters. A fighter can end up with more hp than they started with against the same ones. 
The proportion of manadrainers as you progess get steadily worse. The fact is that regardless of how many MP you have, a spell casting (for arguement sake 220mp) and a monster draining MP from you gives you about 5-6 rounds of attacks before you're out of MP totally. All manadraining critters drain 20% of your total in each round, so if you start on 5000MP, one round and youre down to 3780MP, quite a drop isnt it? 
Some monsters have 12000hp, ok you hit them for 1800-1900, enough to kill them, but then the mage is out of MP and has to hit the pub or home.

In general killing new monsters seems to be harder for mages too. Case in point, Magicrose hasnt managed to kill one monster from the previous level that drops an ingredient in ALL of her new armours for this level. Cronus on the other hand (a woefully constructed semi) can kill the same monsters from about half HP.
In general it seems mages suffer from not being able to kill the important monsters on each level, whereas a fighter can't kill unimportant ones. Cronus still has an unknown from 3 or 4 levels ago, but it drops dragontooth, hardly a major loss.

All in all I don't think a semi, a pure mage, or even a persistance fighter can hope to hold their own against a strength fighter in the long term. They simply hit so much harder than any other character type and vamp huge amounts of HP. Look at the click totals for Magicrose and myself and compare them to Metto and Shadowfiend, and you tell me which character is more effective. I've been steadily catching Rebanne for the last few months, but Spidey and Mar are reeling us both in at a rate of knots.

Finally (cue sigh of relief) its a scant consolation for Magicrose knowing she can beat a fighter in a PvP, 99.99% of her XP comes from non PvP related activities, picking up a million xp every 4 or 5 levels for a PvP victory isnt going to help her.

End of rant:p

Cinder.

Now now - you HAVE to be wrong.  After all the 'research' was done and mages aren't at a disadvantage.  Don't you remember that?  OK, end of sarcasm.  

Thank you for the defense Cinder and remember - MagicRose can attack ....... 2? 3? other characters in the game because of her level.  Someone the piddly little amount of exp points that she gets for defeating newbies who mistakenly hit the 'attack' arrow to see what it does aren't really that helpful.