Will anyone volunteer to communicate with us about what changes are being made, and how long they might take?
Forum changes
Posted in
Dear Moderators
Forum changes
thats if any changes are being made :| they should be some changes made to prevent imbeciles spamming ;\
keyword being
if
.. does anyone know if actual changes will be made, or is it just a chinese whisper/rumor?
I haven't heard anything, that's why I made this post. We KNOW the mods have to read it, but it's a shame that they do not answer - even if to say that they don't know or are not allowed to talk about it. There has always been a lack of communication, which is why they don't have total respect from more people.
what strikes me is a moderator has to read the post before it is actually posted, but yet no-one is actually stepped forward to reply :|
iv just replyed to a form subject and it says please note your reply will need to be approved by a moderator before it is posted in the form
We may as well be in China, too many people are scared to speak out, it's a shame the OP doesn't look at these topics, instead he only seems to post in a few technical posts or the magyar part. (3rd attemp at trying to post in this topic lets see if this one gets through:) )
Yep Chatter, that's what's going on all over the forum at the moment. As à®Ä¦ÄÄVÄÅ ËnËÄÄÅŦĦ஠pointed out quite rightly, the mods are obviously reading this, yet we aren't getting even the slightest hint of a response from any. Maybe there is a plan being worked on, but we should at least be informed of any developments surely? I even noticed the appearance of Op today (or yesterday, can't quite remember:p), yet he has also avoided the issue for now.. We continue to wait...
The forum changes seems rather obvious. If you have posted or tried to post you will know what the changes are.
If (and that's a big if) these changes were kept they would be fine as long as they were implemented properly (i.e. not having to wait as long as several hours for your post to be published) but that would take a major change in how mods spend their time which i don't see happening at this stage of the FOD site.
Ladydie, we know what the changes are right now - what we want to know is if this is permanent or are we waiting for an overall improvement? The trouble is always caused by new nicknames, so why is it that after years of not caring you now hit
everyone
with restrictions? Why not just new nicknames, like I suggested over a year ago?
It's like a big circle isn't it, Beppe has just answered his own question to that with this whole topic :D
Having your forum messages approved is a great idea, it will stop all the abuse that goes on, well done FOD. I am sure that now the forum moderating is up and running the time wasters who have seemed to taken over the forum lately will hopefully give up and move on to another site.
>Having your forum messages approved is a great idea, it will stop all the abuse that goes on, well done FOD. It appears to me that FoD's inability or unwillingness to deal with a handful of troublemakers now affects the freedom of the rest of us. The worst thing is that it is easy to target the cause, but they are not doing so. Well done Kobe, Rain and Fish, you now have what you want - if you can't be the center of attention on the forum, then everybody should suffer.
The freedom of speech is still here for all, but the freedom to abuse has been taken away, that has got to be a good thing. The only people who have to worry about their messages in the forum being deleted are the ones who abuse or cause trouble. FOD has found a way to keep some sort of order within their site which in the end makes it a better site for the majority of people.
But sometimes it's taking a very long time for a message to be put up for example imagine posting "what do you think will happen in match x tonight who will win?" and it only gets let through after this match has finished If done it should be done quickly and efficiently.
>FOD has found a way to keep some sort of order within their site which in the end makes it a better site for the majority of people. They haven't
found
a way, they have partially listened to advise given to them a long time ago. The fact that they are not discriminating against those who cause the problem
hinders
the majority of people using the fourm. I understand your applause for FoD
finally
doing something about the abuse - and really it shouldn't be applause, but a sigh and the words "
At last...
" - but it shouldn't be at the cost of others until they have at least
tried
alternative methods suggested to them. The current situation is restrictive in the way that people can not have on-going debates - there is no longer a real time element to three or more people joining in. There is no opportunity for people to wait for responses, which implies that they have to keep returning. Not everybody will have the time or the inclination to return to the forum whilst it remains like this, so the importance of the place has been diminished. I have heard responses about how not having abuse is a good thing, but let's have the likes of Cream Rose, LadyDie and Devil accept that this solution is a lazy repsonse to a long time problem. What I am looking for is a more intellectual response as to why a solution aimed at the cause of the trouble is being ignored. In fact, what I am looking for is a better commitment from FoD towards it users - one which suggests that they are willing to listen to intellectual suggestions and have the courage to
try
alternative solutions before installing a 100% policing system.
I do agree with you Beppe about some of the very valid points that you make about the time lapse between sending a reply and the posting of it in the forum but there is always the lobby if you want to chat between friends, or discuss with others, lets face it a forum is not a chat room and you seem to be trying to mix a forum and a chat room together.
>lets face it a forum is not a chat room and you seem to be trying to mix a forum and a chat room together. Yes and no. A forum is basically a non-live version of a chat room. What it allows is for people who may play completely different games and/or at different times to come together. What I am trying to do is look at problem solving the logical way. Let's look at the pros and cons as I see them - if you have a different model to base a decision on, please share it.
No previewing by mods
Pros
Complete freedom of speech No time lapse Moderators operate at their leisure
Cons
Allows debates to become overheated Allows temporary abuse Allows illicit material Allows for mods to avoid the forum Allows persistent troublemakers to remain in forum
Previewing every post
Pros
No abuse or illicit material Removes persistent troublemakers
Cons
Takes up more of the moderators time Delayed forum posts Less interactive conversation Option for suppression of reasonable comments Perception of lack of interest of customers by FoD
Previewing new users
Pros
Majority of abuse and illicit posts will disappear Abusive users can be punished without ability to come back with aliases Removes persistant troublemakers Regular users have no time lapse FoD show commitment to improvement Less mod interaction
Cons
Minimal arguments (but can now be dealt with) The advantage with the last is that over 90% of current abuse will still be removed, whilst freedom remains for the decent users of the forum. The few who have old ids or don't care will catch us out from time to time, but because they can't evade the punishment so easily they can be made to disappear. Will it work for sure? I can't answer without guessing, but why not try? FoD have hardly cared over in the 30 months I have been here, so why the sudden hurry for blanket policing? The most irritating thing is that they have ignored sensible suggestions and hence the feelings of the members who make the site what it is.
Yes, I also see a lot of topics in which two people chat in a topic in which their conversion does not relate to the topic at all. They go back and forth, usually about themselves, arguing with each other,or simply talking about complete rubbish. This "approving system" will really help with these
pointless
and
irritating
posts. Difficulties such as
speedy
"approvement" from a moderator and having moderators available at all times to "approve" so many posts may be a problem for FlyOrDie, but I think they have put this into consideration and have a plan to address them by, such as having 10-15 moderators just for the forums.
"such as having 10-15 moderators just for the forums" been said before emphasising Beppe's topic further (no communication) :|
WoW Beppe i bet your glad they posted your message after all you typed :p but i agree with you, I can see the forums going down hill now:( but hey what do you expect FOD's going down hill too. i've been a sub for the last 3 years but not no more, i'll just keep making new names up & play for free :p why should i sub when there is such poor moderation ;)Bet this dont get approved to be posted :-)
>Please note, your reply will need to be approved by a moderator before it is posted in the forum. LOL Have you checked the "TANX" pages recently. "The choking game" posts seems
NOT
to be checked by Mods. Or there censorship standards are lower than mine. :|.
There are many ways of communicating, just because a mod does not put a reply into the forum does not mean that they are not replying or dealing with a certain problem,sometime silence speaks louder than words. What I am trying to say is that by the moderators moderating the forum posts before they are posted communicates loud and clear to those who try to post abusive messages that their posts are not welcome. FOD is looking out for it's loyal players and forum posters by letting the unabusive post through and disallowing the abusive posts. .......having a short delay between writing a post and it getting approved is a small price to pay, I have waited no more than a couple of minutes between clicking 'post message' and my message appearing in the forum. Well done moderation team, you are doing a fine job.
>sometime silence speaks louder than words. Historically on FoD silence has meant that they are ignoring you. The correct communication solves problems, and does not create them. I can understand the mods not getting involved, but OP and co could definitely offer us feedback. What's wrong with "We have noted your comments, but for now we wish to try the current method of control" or "This is a temporary measure, we expect but cannot guarantee a change by the end of Jan 2007"? My understanding is that the regular lack of communication is down poor customer relations by Solware, a statement I believe most people would agree with.
Ha Solware, sent numerous emails to various departments that i found. Shame they never reply either :|
and by the way.. if they're gonna try this measure why not do it throughout the forum, and not just certain sections e.g techincal doesn't have it I don't believe but Dear Moderators does.
ma bad :| its done all around the forums :p but still I'd rather have beppe's suggestion than this.. very slow process :|
>but more often than not actions do a better job could not have put it better my self, wtg chris m8 ;)
well why not all over.. if people like kobe gonna abuse forum they gonna do it in a post where mods dont approve the post.. like i said Beppe ur idea is alot better, as shown by your pro's and con's post ;)
At then end of the day it's a small forum with only june to july 2006 users, who cares what these guys have to say?
My hunch is ,if theres was enough mods monitoring the forum before this system came into force,there would have been no need to change it..not many of the mods have checked it often enough to delete bad messages..i for one(and i hear a cheer from certain people) wont be writing in here so often..after all as someone said ..it someone looks at ur message two days later to approve it..its old news ..( ill just see how long it takes for THIS message takes to be approved lol)
Well u couldnt expect that everything would pass through. This was supposed to be a measure to stop abuse,but sometimes critisism seems to be too much for them. That strengthens your point that this measure decreases our freedom in the forum.
Once again there still hasn't been a reply as to whether the forum changes are permanent, or just a solution until something better is implemented. Is there anyone, mod or fod staff, who is actually willing to talk to us? What is apparent is that the moderators do
NOT
check posts very often, which would be required to make this system work. The effect is that there is no cultured conversation anymore. It's worse than having the abuse, because at least then you could use the place as a forum as well. You haven't made the forum a
better
place like this, but you have
allowed a group of immature and pathetic kids
to achieve their ultimate goal of wrecking the forum for everyone else. They don't know how to make and retain friends, and they are jealous of others doing so - now they are laughing at having beaten the entire fod system. If you want to ignore suggestions about which users should be pre-approved, then can you please make the current system work - if you don't want to employ more mods to check the forum, get the existing ones to check it more often or replace them with people willing to do a better job.
The forum has slipped even lower, nothing is happening, what do we get about 1 new topic a day now. For all we know 90% more topics could have been made but not approved, this is basically a classroom situation, we are the kids, unless we don't put our hands up and be asked to speak, we sit there quietly twiddling our thumbs and obeying the teacher. I used to enjoy the forums, a little debate here and there, but now I feel it's a cess pit, good luck FOD in trying to rectify this problem... your going to need it.
My goodness... what a bunch of whining we have here! My particular thoughts on your various complaints, in no particular order: First, there are countless forums on the net that require pre-approval of posts, so the concept is not new or unusual. You all don't like it because many of you enjoyed using the forums almost like a chat room... frequently there were countless short posts one after the other. This is a FORUM, not an IM service. If you feel the need for the gratification of an instant answer, then I suggest you get the MSN (or other) address of your favorite forum pals. No, we couldn't eliminate just the abusers from the forum for the same reason that we can't completely prevent troublemakers from accessing the site due to dynamic IP addresses... and even if we could, some would complain that our definition of abuse wouldn't agree with theirs. Allowing only subscribed users access to the forum doesn't make alot of business sense for FOD and would no doubt result in loud wailing and knashing of teeth from the non-subs. As for the timliness of post approval... I personally check the forum at least half a dozen times a day and RARELY find an posts awaiting approval. Clearly,the moderation team is checking this very frequently. I can't imagine any forum message so pressing that it can't wait anywhere from a few minutes to an hour or two to get posted. It's not unusual for posts in other forums like this to not be visable until the next day. Yes, there are many fewer topics and posts, because the silly, inane posts that many of you used to complanin about either aren't being approved or aren't being submitted at all. So in the balance, despite the whining of a few of you, I am still convinced that on the whole, the positives FAR outweight the negatives. DD
I think I am in love with DeputyDawg! I also check pending post MANY times a day and rarely find more than one pending. The last time I checked only a Hungarian one was pending.....left that one for someone else. Also I have only not approved maybe two posts.
Wellllllllllll,, Thank goodness thats sorted out then , now every one will be happy. I actually posted this three days ago. :p :D LMAO : <<< Just for the record, this post was approved 13 minutes after submissiion>>> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Jul 14, 2006 3:39 PM]
>My goodness... what a bunch of whining we have here! Call it observation. Or was it supposed to be a title for your reply? I note that you have tried to back the system up without actually answering the questions that have been asked. I shall simplify it for you:
1 - Is the change permanent?
Yes or no would suffice.
2 - Why haven't you tried blocking new users before a blanket system?
Given that most of the abuse comes from new nicknames, this is the
intellectual
response. It doesn't attack regular users, and for new users a couple of months is better than 100% restriction. It's easy for you to say that you couldn't eliminate the abusers, but in reality you haven't actually searched for a solution. It doesn't matter how you word the excuses, at the end of the day the response is lazy and inconsiderate of fod users. Am I expecting too much from a group of people who commit their time to a gaming site? I sincerely hope not, but the more you avoid a better solution - not one you have to find, but one which has been handed to you on a silver plate - I am beginning to wonder. Here's another question to add for you, just in case you decided to respond to what is being asked:
3 - how do you explain censorship?
It took 3 attempts to have my previous post approved. It was a valid post, not against the rules - so why is it that the first two were denied? Don't forget that people pay to use this site - whether it's by subscription or by ad hits doesn't matter. We are allowed to express valid concerns and opinions. As a representative of fod Deputy Dawg you should be providing answers, not make them look even less competent by showing that no one really has an idea of what the customer is asking.
1 - Is the change permanent? ANSWER <<< I don't know, we haven't been told.>>> 2 - Why haven't you tried blocking new users before a blanket system? Given that most of the abuse comes from new nicknames, this is the intellectual response. It doesn't attack regular users, and for new users a couple of months is better than 100% restriction. ANSWER <<< This sounds like a reasonable enough suggestion, but some of the frequent users are guilty of abuse as well. Pre-approving posts addresses both new and old users alike.>>> It's easy for you to say that you couldn't eliminate the abusers, but in reality you haven't actually searched for a solution. ANSWER <<< FlyOrDie HAS found a solution, it just happens to be one that you don't like.>>> It doesn't matter how you word the excuses, at the end of the day the response is lazy and inconsiderate of fod users. Am I expecting too much from a group of people who commit their time to a gaming site? I sincerely hope not, but the more you avoid a better solution - not one you have to find, but one which has been handed to you on a silver plate - I am beginning to wonder. ANSWER <<< It's easy for you to brand as lazy and incompetent, the moderators who VOLUNTEER their time and effort. We're easy targets. While I recognise that you're one of the more articulate of the forum denizens, you enjoy a lively debate just for the sake of debate and IMHO, regardless of what action we take or don't take, you will find something to be critical of.. if for no other reason, just to stir the pot.>>> Here's another question to add for you, just in case you decided to respond to what is being asked: 3 - how do you explain censorship? It took 3 attempts to have my previous post approved. It was a valid post, not against the rules - so why is it that the first two were denied? ANSWER <<< I have no knowledge of whether or not your post took "3 attempts" to be approved, but the notion of "censorship" doesn't apply to a privately owned enterprise (FOD), which is free to set the rules to which its users are subject and to decide how to enforce those rules. Any user who is unhappy is ultimately free to express that displeasure by going elsewhere. >>> Don't forget that people pay to use this site - whether it's by subscription or by ad hits doesn't matter. We are allowed to express valid concerns and opinions. As a representative of fod Deputy Dawg you should be providing answers, not make them look even less competent by showing that no one really has an idea of what the customer is asking. ANSWER <<< I am quite certain that foremost in FlyOrDie's organizational psyche is the fact that they must be profitable to survive and one way or another, people pay to use the site. The fact that the site continues to enjoy robust growth is proof that they must be doing something right. >>> ANSWER <<< As for your comments directed at me personally... just because you don't like the answers I posted, doesn't mean I didn't provide them. You complain when we're silent, and complain when we aren't... and when you don't like our answers, you label us as lazy, slackers, and other such terms of endearment... and you wonder why as often as not, we don't reply.... LOL.>>>
Wow! That sounded almost like a compliment from Beppe! As soon as a pick myself up off the floor from falling out of the chair in surprise, I'll re-read it to make sure.
Hey Deputy, I do actually respect that you have answered the questions this time. >
<<< I don't know, we haven't been told.>>>
That was easy, and now we know not to bug you about that. It would have been nicer 12 days ago. >
ANSWER <<< FlyOrDie HAS found a solution, it just happens to be one that you don't like.>>>
Yes, we know this already. Would I be correct to assume that it's not the moderators choice to bypass a compromise solution? Again, it's all you had to say. Et voila, la question a été répondue. Deputy, I never directed anything at you personally (apologies if it came across that way). The mod team is quite large, I am sure that some are great and others slacking. I have no way of telling who is who, and I don't expect you to share any opinions on the matter. The fact that you are volunteers doesn't really affect what should expected of you, because I don't believe that people should volunteer to do a job if they are not going to do it properly. In this case there are those who do take time for the forums, and they are not the ones I am complaining about. It could be that the entire team is doing their best, but there are uncovered time periods - and I did say that maybe it's fod who need to look at that. Everyone is guilty over the lack of communication though - especially stupid as all you had to say is that the changes are not under the control or influence of the mod team. Give a few minutes to the members of the site sometimes. On the question of censorship... sure, fod is a business and can decide to do what they want. Does that mean a moderator can block a post because they don't like the content? I don't think that this should be the allowed, but I do accept that it's not my decision to make.
I disagree with Beppe and anyone else who says FOD did the wrong thing. You Have to understand there situation. This is a FORUM not a CHATROOM as Beppe wants it to be tyvm. If you want to chat as DeputyDawg said get msn. And Understand it wasnt aimed at all of you. Kobe has been cloning others, Getting others angry and demerited (Beppe) strategically. And hacked Avengers and Rumors are going on even Lil cute angel and devils league among other things m8. And now Kobe and his M8s turned into Rogues and took over forums for a while m8 and the nessesary thing for FOD to do was approve posts. WELL DONE FOD! Cmon m8 we all know Kobe is a immature kid Maybe in a few months (or years) FOD will change it back ya never know and maybe then Kobe will act more maturely and we can all post in peace. Beppe and others quit your wining m8s. If Flyordie lets you have your own way then Kobe and his M8s Fish, Rain, Danny etc etc will be back. So support flyordie m8 and understand there situation.
New user to post reply Link, that means hidden agenda -
maybe then Kobe will act more maturely
- maybe kobe looking for a way back in? What you haven't addressed is the consideration to only have new users approved. A long time ago places like the USA and the majority of Europe gave up communism for free open speech. With that comes the price that some will be able to say what you don't want to hear. These societies put limits on freedom by having methods of punishment. What I have suggested is what anyone who believes in these systems should be agreeing with - a system to cut down the majority of the trouble so that the existing methods of punishment (demerits and bans) become an effective deterent (can't be bypassed with new user ids). If you want to be controlled, move to China.
so who are you then with 2 posts? and people like beppe do not use this forum as a chat room, they provide the best help possible for people who know nothing, and provide intresting reading for people who know most things, but whats the point when there are people like you who abuse him for "using it as a chat room"
Freedom Of Speech: Freedom of speech is the liberty to freely say what one pleases, as well as the related liberty to hear what others have stated. Recently, it has been commonly understood as encompassing all types of expression, including the freedom to create and distribute movies, pictures, songs, dances, and all other forms of expressive communication. How can freedom of speech be applied if it's up to someone else to decide if what is being said is 'right'?
ANSWER <<< the notion of "censorship" doesn't apply to a privately owned enterprise (FOD), which is free to set the rules to which its users are subject and to decide how to enforce those rules. Any user who is unhappy is ultimately free to express that displeasure by going elsewhere. >>> DD.
"Any user who is unhappy is ultimately free to express that displeasure by going elsewhere." So does FOD a "privately owned enterprise" want to keep customers or not?
Of course it applies Peter, just because DD suggests otherwise doesn't make him right. It's just wording though, the point he is
trying
to make has some validity. Companies have the right to set policy within a wide set of parameters, policy which they state in their terms and conditions. The T&Cs are fair, so not a single one of us can argue with them being applied as we have all agreed to them. When a company decides to act
outside
these, they are still bound by international law. They do not have the right to take away fundemental freedoms. Are FoD taking away human rights by censorship? No, the act of censorship in itself is not a crime. If we are being censored because of race, colour, nationality, gender etc. then we might have a case to report them for it, but they are not. Are the moderators suppressing opinion? There will always be a case suggesting that they are acting in the interests of the company. The above was never questioned, so even if DD had correctly suggested that a policy of censorship was a right of the company (it's a factual event, not a mere notion created by us), it doesn't actually have anything to do with this topic. What I am questioning is the effectiveness of the policies they are making. They have taken the easiest way out of a system which allowed abuse rather than considering the needs of their customers. They have the right to do this, that has never been the question. All I have wanted to know is why measures allowing a better level of freedom have been ignored, and why fod have failed to communicate in response to the question. Thanks to DD for trying, but the whining and criticisms are not in response to what was actually asked. The only time you came close you said that I had a "reasonable" suggestion. Thanks to all those who backed him up, I can only laugh at your misunderstandings. I am going to end it like this - since I have joined this site I have never seen a high level of professionalism or intellect shown in the attitude towards the users (in the games and forums I use). I guess that I am being too optimistic to expect this to change.
Here is an example of fod attitude: "Our pool and snooker games are still amongst the best ones, thanks to the continuous upgrades for 5 years" -
Jozsef Hontvari, managing director of Solware
Don't you mean "sporadic"? This is a company who says one thing but does another. So many upgrades that you can STILL play backspin when you are up against a rail. Why did I expect a response ?:|
Solware are the people that run FoD + who "employ" the Mods . Mods
should
follow the rules set down by Solware. Some Mods , in the past, have had a conflict of interest,when trying to apply common sense to run in a tangent with the Solware directives. Hence,some Mods have left. What Solware needs is a settled
team
of Mods. Once they do have that settled team,they can all start to pull in the same direction.Which is to make this site even bigger and better (and safer)than anything else on the web. You will get some rough and bumpy patches along the way,because, after all,we are all human. But doesnt that make it all the more interesting. Sure, sometimes there wrong,sometimes were wrong . All it takes is better communication,done in the right way,to sort everything out. Which leads me to my next observation,,,,Why am I beggining to post like you now Beppe . :O Well at least I stop typing,when my fingers get sore.:p ;)
I think what weve got to accept here lads is..there are some absolutly brilliant mods on here and some absolutly terrible ones,im not gonna name names..but its a fact that some people resent being moderated by someone that appears slighty ,shall we say ..juvinile? lol..but at the end of the day..this is fods site..they dont know what mods they choose till they see what they do in the job..im sure they rid the site of imcompitents..and at the end of the day ..i think we have to thank fod..for givin us a great pool site ..so there na na..so stop wingin and get on with the game lol..
One other thing Beppee..u seem that clued up..why on earth dont u start your own game site(your not satified with this one it seems)..what u doing on this one lol...come on..u seem like an angry person..relax man ..
I just thought,with you beeing technically in the know.You would have an understanding of which kind of package (cheapest ?)FoD has purchased from "jive". Giving us this "new
improved
" Forum. :p
maka
My main problem with this is that I don't trust some of the moderators. How often have users accused and proved moderators of acting without using their common sense and without thinking about the situation correctly. A moderator might read a post quickly and read it incorrectly, removing the post completely and unfairly. SOME moderators hold grudges and this might affect what post they do/don't publish. Also, a post might remove a valid post which has been made about him/her. I still think FlyOrDie are doing the wrong thing. Congratz to DeputyDawg for his replies although I agree with few of your points only, sorry ;). Curiosity DD, how many posts a day average do you have to read before publishing? How many on average do you disapprove? Finally, do you ever consult other moderators to whether a post should be disapproved, mainly because one moderator may find a post offensive whereas no other moderator might? -Euan
maka
>why on earth dont u start your own game site(your not satified with this one it seems) He likes the game, he doesn't agree to the changes made to the site he enjoys playing so he's telling them. I agree with Beppe and I don't agree with replies like that.
In response to your post Euan: "A moderator might read a post quickly and read it incorrectly, removing the post completely and unfairly." Answer: Sure, it's always possible but unlikely. While being a member of Mensa isn't required to be on the Mod Squad, the ability to read is. "SOME moderators hold grudges and this might affect what post they do/don't publish." Answer: Again, it's possible, but not likely as long as a post doesn't violate the rules. "Also, a post might remove a valid post which has been made about him/her... " Answer: We don't approve personal attacks on FlyOrDie members... why should we allow personal attacks on Moderators? A legitimate complaint or concern is likely to be posted however. There have been such posts in the past that were allowed to continue. "... Curiosity DD, how many posts a day average do you have to read before publishing? How many on average do you disapprove? Finally, do you ever consult other moderators to whether a post should be disapproved, mainly because one moderator may find a post offensive whereas no other moderator might?" Answer: As I have mentioned before, I check the forum pretty frequently but rarely find more than a handful of posts awaiting approval. I have rejected VERY few... and those would have been posts that I would have removed in the past had they been posted. Moderators do occasionally consult one another on issues and as you might imagine, there is some lively debate because just like any other group of people, we don't always agree on things. Without question, there is a subjective element to moderation. However, most offenses that moderators act upon are obvious violations of the rules... kind of like if I were a cop and clocked someone speeding with my radar gun, I wouldn't need to consult another officer to know that I should give the guy a ticket. DD
Well i agreed with your reply Maka..im glad u didnt agree with mine..thats what its all about ...a view from everyone..and if people dont agree,theres no need to get a strop on right? lol
>Answer: Again, it's possible, but not likely as long as a post doesn't violate the rules. What do you mean by "not likely"? I have experienced censorship contrary to what you say, so you are wrong. I am not talking about a "perception" of the rules either. <<<Beppe, are you claiming that your posts have been "censored" because a moderator has a grudge against you?>>> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Jul 20, 2006 5:35 PM]
If u think they dont know how to use it properly Beppe,why dont u take over the place lol..obviously with your know how ..us mere mortals are being left behind ..
But if no one patronises FOD or points out faults then they wouldn't need to improve anything, it's good that features of the site that aren't working etc. can be pointed out.
>Actions speak louder than words Take a leaf out of my book, I've been a sub for the past 3 years along with two other members of my family, but guess what NOT no more our sub's recently ran out and we wont be re newing them due to the poor moderation of Certain mod's and lack of them in tanx ( it seams to me mod's are too busy watchin the forums than the rooms). Finaly beppe your wasting your time m8 although god love's a tryer, just do as i've done DONT sub and maybe FOD will get it's act together. ۩ Šçöößÿ ŞμЄ ۩™
maka
>However, most offenses that moderators act upon are obvious violations of the rules... kind of like if I were a cop and clocked someone speeding with my radar gun, I wouldn't need to consult another officer to know that I should give the guy a ticket. Most? So there are times when a moderator might act when it isn't clear that an obvious violation has been made? Seeing as not every moderator thinks the same, one might find something offensive, whereas no other moderator may (as said before). You can't really use the cop example here. You can't argue over speeding. If your doing 60 in a 40 or 45 in a 40, you can't say I wasn't speeding. Some posts which I have had removed in the past, I feel, didn't deserve to be removed. I could argue that my post wasn't offensive, I couldn't argue I wasn't speeding. I do like using forums and this USED to the first I'd visit. I rarely come here now because of how slow my posts are approved. Ohhh, before I finish DD, you say that moderators don't have to be part of Mensa but have to be able to read? Well does FlyOrDie also ask if they understand what they read? I've had my discussions with moderators before and some of them are the daftest people you will come across. I appreciate your replies Deputy, but I'd like to hear other moderators' views on the changes. Better still, I'd like to hear Daniel's views. Euan
><<<Beppe, are you claiming that your posts have been "censored" because a moderator has a grudge against you?>>> I have no idea DD. Some posts just don't appear when they have nothing to do with any controversial subject, then a complaint against the system is posted. It could be possible that specific mods are trying to wind me up, but equally it could be that this system is just failing. Or both.
LMAO,,, It's just taken MORE than 8 ,,, eight ,,,yes 8 hours ,for my reply in Tanx forum to be posted. It was to tell a noob how to play games the correct way up on his screen. IE; not upside down. Hope he was waiting patiently. :|
Just another question that hopefully someone can answer. When people reply to posts they often put something like "could a moderator plese reply with a solution"
or
"it would be helpful if a MOD helps us out here" Now it's been said moderators read the replies that they approve, so why do they not offer a reply to the person or persons in question when they have read that a moderator response would be helpful. I guess this reply is a good example of this point, whether or not it is answered, all credit though to DD and any other mods behind the scenes of this approval system who are doing the job correctly. <<< That's actually not a bad suggestion.. we do have the option to edit (or answer as I am doing now) before approving >>> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Jul 21, 2006 11:30 PM]
Editing at its worse lol.. <<< What's worse is you being critical when you have no idea what you're talking about... see Chris's response below. Oh, and by the way if you're going to be insulting, at least use proper grammer. DD >>> [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Jul 22, 2006 2:49 PM]
not much point in writing in here if ur words are changed? eh lads? lol <<< All you have to do is follow the rules and you have nothing to worry about. DD >>> [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Jul 22, 2006 2:54 PM]
With all fairness to DD he didn't change any of what i said ;) It isn't a bad idea for mods to add an answer onto the edit bit as they have to read through every pot now anyway as DD has pointed out, as long as it's done in an appropriate manner (i.e. not deleting any questions they can't handle etc.)
As for Grammar,i probably know more about the english language than you DD..but people wanna get there massage on here as kwik er quick as possible..not sit around here like a geek..getting there p's and Q's right ..tale note ..
To be, or not to be, that is the question, Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing, end them. To die, to sleep No more, and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to; 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wished to die to sleep! - To sleep, perchance to dream, ay there's the rub, For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil Must give us pause - there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life: For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of disprized love, the law's delay, The insolence of office, and the spurns That patient merit of th'unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin; who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovered country, from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have, Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pitch and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of actionâ¦. Soft you now, The fair Ophelia - Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remembered. I hope that suits your high standards DD..
maka
>I hope that suits your high standards DD.. The high standard that is copying and pasting? I'm sure it does.
Surely you can come up with a better insult than that Maka,it took me six hours to write that lol..
Alittle rewrite here I think Okey..... To play, or not to play, that is the question, Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The shots and angles of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a green baize of troubles, And by opposing, end them. To die, to sleep No more, and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache, and the thousand points to win, That flesh is heir to; 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wished to die to sleep! - To sleep, perchance to dream, ay there's the game, For in that sleep of death what games may come When we have 8 balled off this mortal coil Must give us pause - or was that a disconnection That makes calamity of so long life: For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of disprized love, the law's delay, The insolence of Fod, and the spurns That patient merit of th' unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare cue; who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovered country, from whose bourn, (asl please) No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have, Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make moderators of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pitch and moment With this regard their opponents' turn away, And lose the game of action¦. Soft you now, The fair Beppe - Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remembered.
FnatasTic..donrt edit my words please..the thing that people ,the ordinary people(not gods like u think u mods are ) can not talk in here anymore..so in essence..the only people that are gonna speak in the forum are moderators.....dont make me laugh...im out of here for good(talk about democracy and free speech please in future fod.. <<< Hmm...so ordinary people can't talk in here anymore eh? That's odd... you're still able to post here aren't you? So you must either be ordinary or a god (like you claim we think we are) DD >>> [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Jul 24, 2006 11:26 PM]
How long does in normally take a reply or topic to get approved. I would like to say hello to some of you forum users but im afraid it is quite harder to do so. Snipe
I know I'm getting old,but i'm sure I posted a topic on "missleading info" on the FoD forums. You know,where it tells you one person was the last to post,but when you go to look , it is a completely diff person. Maybe one of the "forum mods" deleted it. Why ? An why is it telling us missleading info ? Where is operator ? (my friend ;)) Why is there more questions than answers ? Should I copy this,incase it doesn't get "approved" ? Should I stop now , before I get banned ? Need to go check now,when my sub is up. ;) << I don't know the fate of the particular post you are referring to, and I haven't really paid much attention to the "last posted" feature... nonetheless, in the overall scheme of things, whether that particular thing works well or not doesn't seem anything worth getting your shorts in a twist over >> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 4, 2006 11:35 PM]
>> I don't know << >>I haven't really paid much attention << >>whether that particular thing works well or not >> Oh dear. :( Ps: its a kilt,not shorts.
Lol, I like the editing ;) (message is the same) If there are over 20 mods, and if each mod checks the forum posts once or twice a day... then why is it that there are often hours between aprovals? Whatever, another rubbish move by a company who doesn't care about it's customers. <<< As imperfect as you may find it, waiting several hours for posts to be approved isn't bad compared to other forums in which I have posted where messages don't appear until the next day >>> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 10, 2006 9:34 PM]
well if its the same song 50th verse, why doesn't someone actually answer beppe's question instead of ignoring it so we can change track.. get bit of guns n' roses on its much better :p
"waiting several hours for posts to be approved isn't bad compared to other forums in which I have posted where messages don't appear until the next day " That's still no justification for it ;) " I personally check the forum at least half a dozen times a" "the moderation team is checking this very frequently." From what i have seen the posts come in batches each day, Beppe has a good point, frequently there are hours between posting and approval but in my opinion the figures don't therefore work out from what has been said. The only way i can see it working is if Deputy is doing a one man job hence the half a dozen times a day meaning that there are hours between approvals. So i'm slightly comfused about whether the quotes above are entirely true or not. <<<<I also check several times a day and I know Ralph the Dog does also.>>>>> << I am convinced that some of you would complain that ice cream is too cold >> DD [Edited by: LadyDie on Aug 10, 2006 9:37 PM] [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 11, 2006 3:37 AM]
Thanks for your replies in the edits anyway, still Beppe has a point it took 3 hours for my post to be approved on a site in which it has been said the moderation team checks very frequent (being a team of 20+ people?). And is Ralph, Lady and Deputy really classed as a team, what about the other moderators? Has a system been created in which 3 mods have been delegated responsibility of the forums? And maybe it is on the verge of complaining but pointing that out just won't make us shut up :p (we are the grumpy folk of the FOD forums after all :) ) And just a quick curious technical question lol how come it says ladydie edited the post before i even wrote it? And if it isn't too much to ask (i really hope one of you three mods reads this) please could you somehow get in contact with OP so he can say a few words about the issue, if not just say, but a yes or no answer would be nice :D Thanks Chris <<<I am sure there are more editing too it is just that I have only talked to DD and Ralph about it. Can't answer your question about OP but WHAT issue???? Don't know about the time thing either unless my psycic abilities are kicking in again and I aproved it knowing you'd write it.>>>> [Edited by: LadyDie on Aug 10, 2006 11:13 PM] << LD is psychic... or maybe the system shows the local time when we edit ;-) >> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 11, 2006 2:29 PM]
"what issue" Well i was thinking along the lines of the fact the forum on his site has changed and he hasn't said one bit of information whether it is going to be a permanent thing or not. And does this count as triple posting? (assuming a post isn't approved before mine when it appears on the forum) Don't really want to get banned for triple posting lol << We haven't been told whether or not the change will be permanent, but I assume it will be. Quite frankly, while some of you don't like it, it has eliminated spamming, vulgar posts, flaming, etc... all of which people complained about. Kind of like medicine... cures the sickness, but tastes bad and may have some side effects. >> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 11, 2006 2:33 PM]
Well what ever would make you even ask such a question? It is changed accept it. Why would you even think it isn't permanent. Sounded like a rather rhetorical question to me. LD
<<< As imperfect as you may find it, waiting several hours for posts to be approved isn't bad compared to other forums in which I have posted where messages don't appear until the next day >>> DD That's like telling Americans that terrorism isn't that bad compared to Hitler. Basically rather than finding an intellectual solution to the issue of abusive posting, fod have applied a band aid so that they don't have to put any effort into it. The losers are the mod team who have to put the extra effort in, and the customers because not all the mods do that. It doesn't matter how you word it DD, this is a poor response. << Wow! It astonishes me that your would bring up terrorism and Hitler in a conversation about something as trivial as the FlyOrDie forum...to suggest that you may be taking this whole issue too seriously might be an understatement. You should consider getting out a bit more. >> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 12, 2006 4:15 AM]
Lol can't believe this topic is still going. We wouldn't think the idea was permanent because it is total crud. Wonder why no one uses the forum anymore? [Edited by: LadyDie on Aug 11, 2006 4:14 PM] << I find it hilarious that the very same people that are whining and crying about the change, are the same ones who used to complain about the spamming, inane and vulgar posts, etc. Fact is, you wanted us to find a way to censor the people you didn't like and yet allow the bunch of you to have free reign. >> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 12, 2006 4:24 AM]
"Why would you even think it isn't permanent." To be blunt, because we havn't been told. Who am i to say if it is or not hence why i'm asking whether or not it is, there is no evidence for either side. The only way anyone can know is if the OP or some other staff member tells us. But it seems this idea is brushed aside everytime it's mentioned (maybe MODs can't contact the OP for some reason or another). <<<Why would you think it is temporary? When a game is added do you ask that question? If they were to change the format of the login page would you ask if it were temporary? If they change the color of the font in forum would you ask too? A change is a change. It is done accept it. Why do you need OPs input? Does OP have to make an announcement on every change? Why would a change NOT be permanent? This whole thread seems silly and I hope it ends soon.>>>> [Edited by: LadyDie on Aug 11, 2006 9:26 PM]
I'm not trying to be rude here, but it seems that most of the replies that we are getting from mods are based on sarcasm.... why is it frowned upon for someone to ask whether or not the OP could be contacted. LadyDie asks "what issue" well the issue we have been debating for the past month on the forum change.
Ok, now this thread has gone on too long, and even I'm beginning to see things from a mods point of view... THE FORUM HAS CHANGED, DEAL WITH IT! Martin << A succinct and accurate statement Martin... I'll put a final point on it then lock this topic because there is nothing else constructive to add at this point. We (moderators) will do our best to review and approve posts in a reasonably timely manner. Without question, there will be occasions upon which posts will take a few hours to get approved... sorry, that's as good as it's going to get... in return, the forum will be a more pleasant place. The bottom line is, if that's not good enough, then as always, you are free to seek out a gaming site (and forum) that meets your expectations. >> DD [Edited by: DeputyDawg on Aug 12, 2006 4:28 AM]